Sen. Bam on fighting the rising prices, suspending TRAIN
(Transcript of Sen. Bam's ANC interview)

Q: Good morning, Sir, thank you for joining us.

Sen Bam: Good morning Christian, magandang umaga.

Q: Maraming umaaray doon sa rising prices of oil, of course price of basic commodities. Let's talk about certain mechanisms that can be done specifically by the Senate to cushion the impact.

Sen. Bam: Well unang-una Christian, tama ka. We go around the Philippines, we were in Isabela the other week, kausap namin diyan mga farmers in Isabela, we talked to jeepney operators in Legazpi, fishermen in Rizal, and all of them are saying the same thing na masayado ng mataas ang presyo ng bilihin.

Nalulunod na sila sa presyo ng bilihin and we need to act on it. Kailangan may aksyon tayo dito.

We filed a Senate Bill 1798 couple of weeks ago which seeks to rollback itong mga dinagdag na buwis sa ating petroleum products because of TRAIN. This is a safeguard bill. it puts in a safeguard kung saan kapag lumalampas ka na sa inflation rate range that the Bangko Sentral gives every year, the government target, and this year it's 2-4%, at kapag lumampas ka na may option ka you should actually suspend the excise taxes on petroleum products like gasoline, kerosene and diesel. Suspend any future increases and rollback excise taxes na idinagdag ngayong 2018. We're hoping na maipasa ito sa Senado, palagay namin ito yung talagang unang-unang bagay na hinahanap ng taumbayan ngayon.

Q: What's the status now of that particular bill?

Sen. Bam: It's been referred to the Committee of Ways and Means, and we've been monitoring sa media 8 or 9 senators have said they're sharing concerns dito sa TRAIN law; we're hoping na itong concerns na ito actually translate into action and we get this bill passed.

Q: But don't you think this is a bit early to introduce this particular cushion, this early in the implementation of TRAIN?

Sen. Bam: Some would say it's late. Kasi kung tutuusin talagang masakit na ito sa taumbayan natin. You go around this is the number one thing people are talking about.

Maraming nagsasabing hindi na nila kayang tustusan yung mga pangangailangan ng kanilang pamilya.

Now when we passed the Senate version, a version of this safeguard was there. Mayroong similar provision na nailagay to put in a safeguard mechanism. Kapag naapektuhan na yung presyo ng ibang mga bilihin, pwedeng magkick-in yung safeguard at pwedeng masuspinde itong mga excise taxes na ito. Kaya nga lang sa Bicam, natanggal. I'm not exactly sure kung paano ito natanggal o sino nag-propose na itanggal ito but napakasayang kasi kung na-retain itong safeguard na ito sa final version, we had already suspended the TRAIN law now.

Q: But is it also fair to make a connection between the rising inflation with the implementation of the TRAIN law? This is according to the economic managers, the impact on inflation so far is 0.4%?

Sen. Bam: Alam mo magkakaiba yung nagsasabi ng 4.4%, in the previous hearing we had sa Committee on Economic Affairs, it was 0.7% to 0.9%. The point is, after the TRAIN law and because of other factors nagsitaasan yung presyo ng bilihin natin. Tama naman yung pagtaas ng presyo ng petroleum products hindi lang naman dahil iyan sa TRAIN, it's because of the world oil prices and Peso-Dollar exchange rate.

Pero sabi ko nga, ano diyan yung kontrolado natin at hindi natin kontrolado? Kontrolado natin yung pinapataw na buwis, pero hindi natin kontrolado yung ibang mga bagay. Pangalawa habang pataas ng pataas ang presyo ng mga bilihin, tama ba na dadagdagan mo pa ito (tax)? Parang hindi common sense or logical na habang patuloy yung pagtaas ng price of crude oil ay dadagdagan mo pa ng buwis.

Now when the law was passed, I think the price for the oil per barrel was around $50, ngayon nasa $70 plus na. So let's recognize that there are changes, may mga pagbabago na nangyayari na hindi inasahan ng DOF noon and we need to act on it and be responsible.

Q: Wasn't this factor endangering the preparation for the TRAIN law, during the deliberations, mayroong projections supposedly pero hindi ba nasama sa discussions iyon?

Sen. Bam: That was the question posed by Senator Gatchalian during that Committee on Economic Affairs hearing: Mali ba yung forecasts ninyo (DOF)?

Maraming assumptions na mali. Unang-una, hindi nila inaasahan na ganito kataas yung presyo ng krudo, pangalawa hindi nila inaasahan na yung epekto nito sa ibang mga produkto ay ganito, they kept on saying "dapat 7 centavos lang iyong itataas ng sardinas" but if you go to the markets now makikita mo it's P1.00 and up. Now yung market behavior kung paano mag-react yung merkado, kung paano mag-lock yung mga supply chain, kung paano maaapektuhan ang taumbayan, dapat alam mo iyan. When you propose a law, alam mo dapat iyan.

Q: Where do we attribute this? Basically you're saying because of this misappreciation, siguro wrong forecast, dapat magkaroon ng caution yan which is what you're trying to propose.

Sen. Bam: Hindi kami nagkulang dito. We said tataas yung inflation, ang sabi noon ng DOF hindi ito lalampas ng 4%, and now we're at 4.5%-4.6% already. Sabi namin yung ibang mga produkto maapektuhan, sabi nila dapat centavos lang yan. But if you go to the markets now makikita mo napakataas na ng presyo ng mga bilihin, so maraming mga assumptions at naiisip noon na clearly ngayon hindi na talaga siya totoo. So we need to act on the current realities, not on the previous assumptions na mali naman talaga.

Pangalawa ito yung masakit na masakit talaga. This is why I voted no sa TRAIN law. Yung mga programa na pambalanse natin dito you have the Unconditional Cash Transfer Program, you have the Pantawid Pasada Program, these haven't been implemented completely, out of the 10 million families na dapat makakuha ng tulong from the Unconditional Cash Transfer ang nabibigyan pa lang as of last month was about 2.6 million.

Q: Because of what?

Sen. Bam: Because of implementation issues, hindi ma-implement ng DSWD yung programa na ito.

Q: So purely logistical ba iyan?

Sen. Bam: It's purely logistical. The money is there, pinondohan namin ito at hindi nila ma-distribute yung pera. During the time when the law was being deliberated, during the period of interpellation, ang sabi ko hindi ba pwedeng ipagsabay yung pagtaas ng presyo ng bilihin doon sa programang tutulong sa mga mahihirap? Ang sabi nila mauuna daw yung pagtaas ng presyo, to follow yung tulong and that's why I voted no.

How could we vote for a law na isusunod nalang yung tulong na ibibigay sa mga mahihirap nating mga kababayan. When we had the Committee on Public Services hearing in Legazpi mga jeepney operators kausap namin, none of them have had the Pantawid Pasada Program na dapat tutulong rin sa mga jeepney operators natin, wala rin.

Q: Magkano dapat yung Pantawid Pasadang program?

Sen. Bam: Alam mo hindi rin siya ganoon kalaki per day, parang it's less than P15.00 per day yung tulong na iyon. So even that is already a big question, tama ba yung computation nila dito sa Pantawid Pasada and Unconditional Cash Transfer? Again this is just P200 per day (for the UCT).

Q: Per month.

Sen. Bam: Per family.

Q: Iyon nga yung question ko is that enough to cushion the impact of inflation?

Sen. Bam: Well some experts are saying it's enough. Of course, some of us have said sa Senate na kailangang i-recompute ito, tignan natin kung talagang sapat na ba ito na balansihin yung nadulot ng TRAIN na pagtaas ng presyo ng bilihin. All of our tax laws, according to our Constitution, kailangang progresibo siya at ibig sabihin niyan yung pinakamahihirap dapat mas kakakunti yung buwis o dapat walang buwis, habang yung mayaman dapat mas malaki nabubuwis sa kanya.

But in the TRAIN law we adjusted the income for our middle class, yung mga mahihirap pinatawan ng mas matinding buwis because of excise taxes on these products. That program yung Unconditional Cash Transfer, yun lang yung programa na pwede mong masabi na tutulong sa mga mahihirap in the TRAIN law and while that is not completely implemented, hindi natin masasabi na makatarungan itong batas na ito.

Q: Now what would be a more acceptable or more realistic figure in terms of Unconditional Cash Transfer?

Sen. Bam: We were talking about going to P400, some senators were talking about that.

Q: Dodoble ang pondo diyan.

Sen. Bam: At this point though mas mahalaga na ma-distribute yung pera, because isipin mo since January nandiyan na yung perang yan, I think it's about P24-28 billion, and right now ang nabibigay palang ay less than half. Ang sinasabi ng DSWD baka daw sa Setyembre nila maibigay yung tulong na ito. So ang tanong ko bakit mo ihuhuli yung tulong? Bakit mauuna yung pagtaas ng presyo ng bilihin? Yun palang dapat cause for suspension na ng batas na ito.

Q: Ano yung pinakanakikita niyong reason? Because I remember during your hearings, some of the discussions were focused on the proper identification of the poorest of the poor, that's why during that time they were trying to introduce a national ID system, kapag pinagdikit mo supposedly you will be able to better implement the Unconditional Cash Transfer.

Sen. Bam: I agree. In fact nabanggit nung isang DOTR representative during the Legazpi hearing na hihintayin daw yung national ID system bago ibigay yung Pantawid Pasada. I was telling them kung hihintayin niyo iyan 2019 niyo na maibibigay yung tulong na ito, hindi na ito aabot ng 2018. At yung mga pangangailang ng mga kababayan natin araw-araw iyan. Hindi iyon pwedeng to follow or next month nalang, one tranche nalang or 19 months later.

Now what should have been done, again this is why I voted no on the law, hindi dapat itinaas yung excise taxes habang hindi pa handa yung programang tulong sa ating mga kababayan. At the minimum they should have postponed the increase in prices kasabay nitong mga programang ito, ngayon na nauna yung pagtaas ng presyo, nahuli yung tulong, umaalma ngayon ang taumbayan.

Q: Now if your bill becomes a law, how much of the projected revenue under the TRAIN law package one will be lost?

Sen. Bam: Ang total projection for excise taxes on petroleum products in TRAIN 1 is P70 billion, so if ever maybe kalahati niyan or a part of that, sabihin mo nang P70 billion Christian.

Q: Yung buo nawala.

Sen. Bam: Yung buo nawala, although of course June na tayo baka kalahati lang niyan (inaudible), but let's say P70 billion, magkano ba yung underspending natin nung 2017? It was P390 billion. P390 billion perang ibinigay sa mga ahensya hindi nagamit at ibinalik rin lang, so we're talking about huge amounts of money underutilized and we have a P70 billion target na kailangang habulin, siguro naman mahahanapan natin iyan.

Pangalawa, some of the eagle eyes in the Senate, of course we're talking about Senators Legarda and Lacson and some of my colleagues nahahanapan nila kung ano yung mga pondo sa ating budget na hindi naman talaga dapat nalalagyan this year, hindi pa naman talaga handa yung mga programang iyan pero pinopondohan pa rin.

Q: (Inaudible) in the meantime.

Sen. Bam: Exactly, I'm sure mahahanapan mo iyan to fill up this gap. The question is tama naman na taasan ang koleksiyon ng gobyerno, in fact that's a goal of every government and it's correct, but we should look at BIR, we should look at Customs at tanggalin yung korapsyon diyan at gawin nating mas efficient, and you look at underspending. Last resort mo dapat iyong bulsa ng taumbayan iyong pinapahirapan mo. That should be the last resort, not the first choice.

Q: That's a common debate kasi yung improved tax collection, you go after the corrupt officials, pero siyempre basically when the economic managers introduce proposal to the Congress siyempre the idea is all of these things have been factored in, di ba?

Sen. Bam: Are we doing enough in terms of cleaning up BIR and Customs? Parang hindi pa yata. May naririnig ka pa ring mga eskandalo diyan left and right, and iyong underspending palang napakalaking bagay na. What I am saying is okay some of us probably would've agreed, I would've agreed to the beverage tax honestly kasi iyon naman maraming mga choices. I remember during the time this was being deliberated, dalawang bagay yung binanggit ko sa Department of Finance. Unang-una iyong Unconditional Cash Transfer maibibigay niyo ba talaga, pangalawa itong excise taxes on petroleum products sa kerosene, diesel and gasoline na may malaking epekto sa ating mga produkto ng bilihin at iyan delikado iyan. Again 6 months later, nakikita natin iyong dalawang bagay pa rin na iyon ang pinakaproblema ng TRAIN Law.

Q: Now how big a factor was the abusive behavior of certain merchants, traders and businessmen taking advantage of the TRAIN law implementation to increase their prices when in fact they didn't have to?

SBA: Well unang-una may mga iba diyan namimihasa talaga at iyon kailangan ng enforcement. Meaning noong panahong itinulak iyong batas dapat alam niyo na, i-factor in niyo na iyan na magkakaroon ng abuso at dapat handa na kayo na hulihin sila. Until now wala pa rin yatang nahuhuli at kinakasuhan. It's all just basically words. Sa taumbayan ang mahalaga sa kanya, pagpunta niya sa supermarket o palengke iyong presyo kaya niya, so all of these things had happened beforehand, if government can enforce that (inaudible). On the other hand mayroon ka rin kasing market behaviour. What do I mean? Ito iyong babalik tayo doon sa 7 centavo sardinas example, we have this exchange with one of the undersecretaries of DTI, laging sinasabi "Sir, 7 centavos dapat lang yung akyat kasi 7 centavos lang naman iyong contribution ng fuel and transportation cost doon sa produkto", kung yung sardinas mo P13 and 7 centavos nga iyan, so P13.07 hindi ka naman pupuntang supermarket na P13.07 iyong icha-charge sa iyo kasi wala ka namang sukli diyan na 93 centavos, ang icha-charge sa iyo ay P14.00. So just that very simple common sense na example na 7 centavos mo naging piso, so times 14 kaagad, napakalaking times niyan.

Q: In short, mawawalan ng pera automatically ang consumer.

Sen. Bam: In short these are things that should have been factored to begin with, hindi puwedeng puro theoretical lang. Tama nga siguro maybe the real contribution is just a few centavos pero pagdating sa merkado lumalaki iyan. Now once that is transferred to another layer of the supply chain, lalaki ulit iyan, so these things have to be factored into consideration. Kapag pumunta ka ng Isabela ano yung concern ng mga magsasaka? "Sen, iyong presyo ng fertilizer namin noon P600-700 ngayon P1,000-1,200 na" bakit? "Kasi po mabigat po iyan, kailangan pong i-transport kaya iyong charge po niyan sa amin tumaas, lumaki na." So doon palang nahihirapan na yung mga magsasaka na kumita based on their experience. Jeepney operators of course are talking about the rise in diesel, iyong tumaas ang presyo ng diesel nawalan din sila ng kita, these are things na apektado ang napakaraming Pilipino. And again Christian we can debate and review, pwede tayong magturuan, we can talk about so many things pero ang hinahanap ng tao ngayon aksyon, ito iyong kailangan nating aksyunan. Of all of the issues raised by TV, media, and by politicians, this is the main issue that people want action on. Sana naman mabigyan namin ng aksyon itong isyu na ito, mapasa natin itong safeguard.

Q: But how would you respond to the argument by the economic managers that this is something that we have to bite, basically bite the bullet in the meantime because of the long-term impact of what this TRAIN law is supposed to do?

Sen. Bam: Unang-una kapag sinabi, in fact Sec. Diokno said "huwag kayong crybaby" di ba, that was the line that was quoted sa kanya. Sa totoo lang umiiyak na talaga yung mga tao, pag-ikot namin may mga nanay umiiyak talaga sila sa taas ng presyo ng bilihin at hindi na nila mapakain yung kanilang anak. May mga machong lalaki, naiiyak sila kasi sabi nila kayod po kami nang kayod pero hindi namin matustusan itong pangangailangan ng pamilya namin. So umaalma at umiiyak na ang mga tao, we need to do something now. At the minimum, implement the programs in the law. This is really part of the law implement natin iyan, kung hindi natin ma-implement yung tulong sa mahihirap huwag tayong magpataw ng buwis.

Pangalawa itong bill namin for safeguard, it's reasonable and common sense, kapag sumobra ang inflation natin you have a mechanism to rollback the prices to suspend any future increase, palagay ko reasonable, logical at common sense, sana naman masuportahan.