Press Release
May 31, 2018

Transcript of Interview of Senator Koko Pimentel III

On whether the BBL can withstand the test of constitutionality

Senator Pimentel: Of course. Wala namang senador or kongreso na sadyang magpapasa ng unconstitutional na batas, so once we approved the BBL last night on third reading, we were all convinced about its constitutionality.

Q: Do you think meron pa ring magku-question niyan?

Of course, expected na po yun na merong magku-question.

Q: How about the contentious part between sa House and the Senate?

I have not seen the House, basta yung kwento lang yung block grant, binabaan nila by 5 percentage point, so sumama kami doon. Sa plebiscite daw, the House version says daw, kasi hindi ko pa nakita, the permission of the mother unit must be given before the LGU, either the six municipalities or the 39 barangays, may be allowed to join the BBL. Sa version namin wala yung permission from the mother unit. Those are two which immediately come to mind.

Q: Sir yung opt-in?

Yung opt-in tinanggal na namin. Ito na lang, there will only be one plebiscite which is the one which will also approve the BBL.

Q: For every five years?

Wala na, wala na yun. Tawagin na lang natin yun na yung periodic plebiscite requirement, tinanggal na sa Senate, at ang pagkaka-alam ko, kasi wala rin yun sa House. Nagkatugma pa.

Q: Bakit ninyo tinannggal yung ganung option?

Because maraming objection nga that sabi nung mga contiguous or adjacent areas, to let us say there will be a BBL established, there will be an adjacent areas, there will always be a tug-of-war daw for the hearts and minds of their constituents because they are a potential expansion area. So tinanggal na natin yung tension na yun.

Q: Ano ang mga reaction nung mga BTC?

Si Senator Zubiri would know yung reaction nila but accepted by the sponsor, and the sponsor almost always consults with the BTC before.

Q: Ano yung implication nung wala ng opt in?

Hindi, kasi nga magulo. Yung periodic plebiscite, wala na so there will only be one plebiscite which is the 120 days, not beyond 120 days after the approval of the BBL law. Yun yon. So, ano yung plebisito, sinong covered, the present ARMM, the six municipalities of Lanao del Norte, the 39 barangays of North Cotabato, the cities of Cotabato and Isabela, and possible some adjacent LGUs where 20 percent of the voters petitioned that they be allowed to join the plebiscite, or the Sanggunian of this LGU will pass a resolution that they be allowed to join the plebiscite. Yun lang.

Q: Pag naging part na, wala ng opt-out?

Okay. Basta yung present BBL, walang mechanism for opt-out.

Q: Yung sa Bangsamoro police and military, ano ang nilagay ninyo?

The usual agreement naman na regional. The police office in the Bangsamoro region will be a regional police office. So parang sa amin sa Region 10, meron kaming PRO 10. So dito, merong PRO BBL or Bangsamoro. Ganun din yung sa military structure, meron din siyang regional command. Never naging in doubt yan, very very clear na from the very start.

Q: What about political dynasties?

Pag dating dun sa political dynasties, bawal gamitin yung party representation. Party-list, technically hindi daw yun party-list but for convenience na lang, yung party-list system nila which hindi yung district elected, bawal gamitin in such a way that relatives of district assemblymen would use the party system as additional seats in the parliament. Pinagbawal po natin yan.

Q: Sa parliament itself, basta may na-elect, bawal ang magkakamag-anak?

Inelect eh. Pwede. Yung party system lang na bawal, siguro kinompare sa nangyayari sa present party-list system na we have noticed some party-list representatives bearing the same surname as a district elected congressman, yes.

Q: Going back sa block grant, paano yung monitoring and accountability?

May COA, may double audit system pa nga yan sila pagdating sa BBL. There si a double audit system. Ino-audit na yan ng COA, walang kawala doon, and they can even audit themselves, mag-internal auditing, they can create an internal audit office. So dalawang beses pa inaudit yan. Very transparent po ito.

Q: Paano po yung budget?

Di ba na-reduce to five percent ang block grant, which is five percent ng combination ng internal revenue collection at saka ng customs collection, kagabi finix yun, may various amounts tayong nanaririnig, ilagay na natin sa around P60-billion yung five percent na block grant.

Q: Sa House?

Five percent pareho.

Q: Tapos bibigyan pa sila ng national government?

Oo ngayon kasi kung magre-rely ka sa present figures, wala silang kinikita.

Q: Pero given po na until when sila kinikita?

Certain number of years yata. Either five or ten years.

Q: Kahit sa tax collection wala silang isha-share?

Oo. For the five to ten year period wala and then after that, 50-50.

Q: Paano yun, automatic na after five or ten years, kumita man sila o hindi, matatapos yung block grant? O subject to evaluation ng national government?

Yung block grant kasi is, ang pagkaka-alam ko sa block grant, we have to give it. I need a copy of the law kung ilang years yun. Basta meron pang special development fund, yun yung ginawa naming ten years lang yun. Yung special development fund, iba pa yun P10-billion a year yung original proposal, na-reduce siya sa P5-billion a year, for ten years. Yun ang specific.

Q: Ano ang total na matatanggap nila?

I-add mo na lang. Sixty plus five, sixty-five, plus yung sinabi ninyong i-hold nya yung collection ng lahat, siguro ilagay natin sa P2-billion yun, P67-billion.

Q: Yung wealth-sharing, yun yung 50-50 pag dumating yung ten years na kumikita na sila?

May period din yun, there is also a period for that in the meantime, kaya nga pinoint out na yung ARMM, binigyan na rin period yun. Never dumating yung time na magre-remit na sa national, hanggang ngayon sa BBL ireretain ulit yung period.

Q: Pwede silang mag foreign loan?

Oo.

Q: Paano yung transition?

Pag na-approve na ito, BTC, tuloy muna. Then papasok ang BTA, iaappoint ng Presidente muna until they would sit until 2022. Then eleksiyon.

Q: Ilan ang members ng Senate?

Not less than eighty. Yun ang pagka-phrase nun.

Q: Kelan ang plebiscite?

Ninety to 120 days after the effectivity of the law. Kasi we also need that period kasi yung mga gustong magpetition, kailangan nilang kumilos. Ninety to 120 days. Comelec ang magse-set nun, mamimili si Comelec sa 90 to 120 from the effectivity. It's not signing, may publication pa yan.

Q: If nanalo sila sa plebiscite, what happens next?

Kick-in ang transition period. Pag nananalo sa plebiscite, that means ratify. Therefore, ARMM is dissolved and there is now a transition period to governmental mechanisms of the BBL. Pero pag ratify may BBL na ah.

Pag natalo ang BBL, ARMM. Ang floor ng lahat na ito, ang pinakamababa nating babagsakan sa ginawa natin is just back to ARMM.

Q: Sir paano maeelect yung leaders po ng Bangsamoro if regular na at may parliament na?

Mayroong district seats, mayroong proportional representation seats, at mayroong reserved seats. Ang district seats, ihahalal through the elections that we know. Pagdating sa proportional representation, party po ang binoboto doon, they will determine the percentages na nakuha ng party and they will divide the number of seats reserved for the parties in accordance with the percentages, tapos yung reserve sa women, sa youth, sa non-Bangsamoro settlers, sa indigenous peoples. Sila na ang magcocome-up ng rules doon.

Q: Gaano kadami yung seats?

Not less than 80, ganoon siguro. Ayusin pala natin dapat iyon, kasi ganoon siguro ang pagka-phrase noon kasi may periodic plebiscites na pwedeng mag expand ang territory. Pero minor na iyan, pwede yan ifix na lang ang number.

On the issue of representation by parties and potential domination by majority parties Bago magkaroon ng Chief Minister, kasi controlled mo nga yung parliament. It is the other way around, it is the parliament who determines the Chief Minister, kasi dun siya nanggaling sa nakabuo ng coalition.

Q: On "opt-in provision" and potential inclusion of more cities

Step 1, we know the extent of the present ARMM diba? Five provinces. Step 1, ang tanong, did BBL win the plebiscite in the present ARMM? If the answer is yes, therefore we have the BBL. Then we go into in the plebiscite results in the 6 municipalities of Lanao del Norte, the 39 barangays of North Cotabato, the cities of Cotabato and Isabela, and other areas which seek to join. If any of them answered, "Yes we want to join them" then they are now going to join the BBL. If they say no, they are not part of the BBL. Status quo sila.

Q: So yung 90-120 days, yun yung period for filing of inclusion?

90-120 days, COMELEC ang mamimili ng date when the plebiscite will be. So at least from the date of effectivity to that election/plebiscite day, magkalap na sila ng signatures kasi mayroong pang 2 months na pwede ka magsabi sa COMELEC, "Include us in the plebiscite."

Q: Yung block grant, wala nang limit?

Yung block grant walang limit, pero may mechanism to review the rates..

Q: So dapat mag submit sila ng list ng po ng gustong projects nila?

Mayroon silang mga development plans ganun, pero actually as I understand it is an unconditional block grant. Nangyayari naman sa United States of America. The federal government gives some states if not all states unconditional block grants, "Gamitin ninyo iyan pang improvement ng iyong lugar. Some are conditional block grants, halimbawa pag maganda ang performance ng inyong mga estudyante sa educational assessment tests, bigyan naming kayo ng pera. Pero ito ay unconditional block grant.

Q: Sir may provision po ba na pwedeng alisin yung block funds if hindi makadeliver?

Well kasi may mechanism naman, intergovernmental mechanism na nirereview, kung naabuso or nasasayang lang, then the national government will have to put its foot down.

Q: Sir mahihirapan ba kayo sa bicam?

No, okay ito. We will perspire, but we would be able to solve it.

Q: Since ARMM was mentioned in the constitution, can it be amended/dissolved by a special law?

Hindi naman actually binubuwag ang ARMM, we are building upon the gains of the ARMM, kaya nga walang opt-out provision since we are preserving the territorial integrity of the present ARMM, we are enhancing the autonomy enjoyed by the present autonomous region, so ganyan ang pag-argue natin. Incidental lang yun na nirepeal yung law, which governed the present ARMM, kasi we are changing the structure of government, may block grant na, may mga ganun.

Sa tingin ko kung ganun lang yung dahilan, we will survive the test of constitutionality. Because this is still the autonomous region mentioned in the Constitution.

Q: Nawater-down ba ang original version ng BBL, sa tingin ng BTC?

Hindi lang nila nakuha 100 percent ang gusto nila, pero actually inayos eh, all the more nagging constitutionally compliant eh. It's not watered down kasi una sa lahat, all of the important concepts are there: may block grant, mayroong taxing power, yung hatian, nandiyan yung parliamentary structure of government. So it's all there, it's the details lang, yung 6 percent to 5 percent etc.

Q: On banning the Bangsamoro regional government from buying arms

Hindi na sila rebel ngayon, government na sila. May auditing nga, at kinilaro pa doon that the Bangsamoro government shall not appropriate funds for the acquisition of arms, weapons and ammunitions.

Q: Sir ang Congress, wala nang magiging say sa spending nila, unlike at present?

Oo. But Congress can still supplement, but still guaranteed yung mga amounts na yun. Autonomy naman, bigyan natin sila ng real autonomy.

Tsaka sabi nga ni Senator Zubiri, natawa daw sila nung narinig nila yun kasi wala naman sila talagang balak na bumili ng arms eh. Kasi part nga ng agreement natin sa kanila is to surrender their arms. Nag dami na nilang armas eh. That's why tinanggap nila, it is just a redundancy, it is just stating the obvious. Hindi naman nila ibibili ng arms yun.

Q: Are you going to withdraw your signature?

No. I was not part of those who targeted it to be part last night Walang masama kung may oras. But, 2 o'clock na iyon.

Q: Are you concerned if it will be too late to be tackled in July?

Too late. Kung may agenda siyang gamitin to some other event. If it jusr the expression on the sense of the senate, it can come anytime.

Q: Did you sign it to influence the court?

I did not sign it to influence the court. I signed it to express the opinion or the sense of the senate.

Q: Will the resolution be adapted in July?

May 14 signatures siya. So most likely.

Q: If the resolution will be adapted in the senate, would it be given more weight?

Speculative na iyan. Hindi na mangyayari. Weight is in the point of view of the Supreme Court. So, I cannot answer it.

Q: Is really important for the senate to really adapt it?

It's the sense of the senate resolution. If the senate wants to express its sense about anything, let the senate do it. For the record, for the future. Para mapag usapan. Ang merits of the case. Kasi under our system, decisions of the supreme court, cannot be reviewed by any other court or any other body. Hence, it should be reviewed by the people. Plenary discussion about the supreme court decision. It is part of helping the people form their opinion on the soundness. Hindi ito on the constitutionality, but on the soundness of the arguments of the supreme court.

Q: Is it persuasive?

Sa tao, hindi sa court. It is not really meant to be used as a pleading for submission to the court.

On the controversy of Solgen Calida, what is your point of view?

Ang understanding ko sa constitutional requirement, if you join in the cabinet, you are required to divest. But he is not in the cabinet. May cabinet ang cabinet, si Justice Secretary Guevarra. He is under DOJ. Ang cabinet member sa kanyang governmental line is Justice Secretary Guevarra. Hindi siya.

Q: What if it is an attached agency?

Huwag lang siya ang mag manage. Kasi gobyerno na siya ngayon. May juridical identity. That is why you incorporate in the SEC, another body, a corporation. So that it will have another identity. Basta ang requirement to divest, sa taas. Sa cabinet members. Hindi siya cabinet member. So, wala siyang requirement to divest. Ang requirement naman, since government employee ka, huwag ka naman active na magpatakbo ng private company. Hindi naman din daw siya ang nagpapatakbo. Alam mo, wala naman vow na kapag sumali ka sa gobyerno, na kailangan ay wala ka talagang investment. Hindi puwede iyon.

On the impression of others to Calida is that he used it to influenced

Ipakita na lang ng nag reklamo. Kasi ako sumasagot lang ako on the basis on the constitution. Ang mga facts na ganyan, whatever they can prove, they can give me the facts. And, I will form my opinion.

On the President's answer that it is a legitimate business, na hindi dapat sinasabi doon sa issue niya kasi matagal na iyong security agency niya, so why fire him?

The firing of him, decision na ng president e. Ang opinion ko, as far as I can recall, the requirement to divest is when you join the cabinet, when you are a department secretary.

Q: So, Calida did not violate any code of conduct?

Give me the acts. Pero kung iyan lang na a company where he has shares of stocks, has won a security contract in the government, which is not his agency or under his agency, what's the issue?

Q: What if the minority filed an investigation?

Ganito iyan ha. Let us assume na sa OSG ay may agency sa ilalim ng OSG, doon nagka security contract ang kanyang company na part owner siya. May issue ka doon. Pero pataas kasi. Ang DOJ ay boss pa niya.

Q: Will the senate will still investigate?

Depende. Ganito kami sa senate. Kapag may nag file ng reso, it will be referred to the committee. Then, it will be the judgment call of the chair whether he or she wants to hear it.

Q: Para ma clear ang kanyang name, bakit hindi na lang isa publiko ang mga agencies na may mga contract sa government agencies?

I think na identify na rin ang mga agencies. Kunin nila ang dokumento. And from the number alone, I cannot say that there is a violation because it is 260 million. Give me facts.

Q: If you are saying na malinaw ang nasa batas, hindi na kailangan ng senate investigation?

As I say, sa constitution kasi ako nag based. Maybe sa code of conducts. Depende sa facts. Kung ganoon lang ang basic facts na just because he is a stock holder of a corporation which won a contract in the government, walang issue. But, give me more facts.

Q: If ginamit ang influence, may violation?

Yes. Kung ginamit ang influenced. And then kung naka contract ka sa ahensiya under you, ang presumption is ginagamit mo ang influenced mo. Kasi under you. Pero siya under the DOJ. Pataas. Tapos ang iba, totally hindi connected sa agency niya.

Q: Is the SolGen is not a cabinet member?

Not a cabinet member. A cabinet member is the department secretary. A secretary must divest. The reason why you incorporate is because you want this entity to have a personality separate from you and the investors. Iyon ang totoo. It's a separate personality.

On Senate committees

Q: What committees did you accept?

Electoral Reforms; the Oversight Committee on the Automated Election and of course, Trade and Industry.

Q: Local Government?

Hindi. Kay Sonny Angara kasi marami na siyang achievements doon. Huwag na nating kunin.

Q: Ethics?

Iwan na natin kay SP. Siya na mag decide kung kanino niya ibibigay. Q: Priorities of the Electoral Reforms?

Marami. Number 1 iyong air time limits. Kasi ako mismo, ang personal opinion ko doon, the law is meant to limit the total air time - 120 for TV, 180 for radio. Number 2, spending limits of the candidate. Kailangan I adjust na ito. Not for the national. Kasi sa national it is still affordable kasi malaki naman ang population. Lumalaki din ang VAT. But for the local, kawawa. Local candidates are being disqualified because of exceeding the spending limit. They are facing cases. They are forced to lie. Kasi why we should forced them to lie sa 3 pesos per voter in their area. Tatakbo kang mayor in hundred thousand voting population in a municipality, you cannot report fixed expenditure of more than 300 thousand. Heto pa ang maganda, kasi nilapit mismo ni Speaker sa akin. The possibility of a hybrid election. Na open mind ako doon. Kasi itong barangay election, nakita daw nila, na nakita ng tao ang bilangan. So, ibig sabihin noon, sinabi ni Speaker, na may mga politicians, siguro na miss ng tao ang bilangan. So, baka magra-rush kami ngayon, kasi policy decision muna iyon. If it's hybrid, change of plan. All the vote counting machines will be set aside. But we need the automated canvassing machines or computers.

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