Press Release
November 10, 2016

Transcript of Sen. Grace Poe's Questions During the Public
Hearing of the Senate Committee on Public Order

On Autopsy

Sen. Grace Poe: Thank you Mr. Chair, magandang umaga po sa inyong lahat. Ito pong una kong tanong ay para kay Medico Legal Benjamin Lara. Kayo po ang gumawa ng autopsy doon sa katawan ng mga nabaril, mga biktima. Maaari po ba na ilahad ninyo kung ano ang inyong nakita sa inyong autopsy report at meron na pong mga karagdagang ding katanungan pagkatapos nun.

CIDG Benjamin Lara: Good morning Mr. Chair, good morning, your honors. I would just like to have this, if I may, I made a powerpoint presentation.

Poe: Yes go ahead

Lara: At the onset, may I inform that the presentation may contain some sensitive...that might not be fit for public television. To proceed with the presentation, this is a case, the subject is examined was that of a male cadaver, fully developed, fairly nourished and embalmed at the time of examination. For the examination of the head and neck, this is the cadaver of Rolando Rosal Espinosa. For the head and neck there was only one injury that I noted, it was a lacerated wound on the left temporal region, upon internal examination of the head and neck, I was not able to note any injuries, it was unremarkable. On the body of the victim, I noted that there were, on the anterior aspect or in layman's terms, the front of the body of the victim, there were 4 points of entry. The injury that I marked as point of entry at that time, at the onset again, I would like to state that the numbering does not indicate the sequence of the firing of the shots. It only a means to label the findings your honor. So, for point of entry number 1, it was of the sternal region, it measured 0.8 by 0.6 centimeters along the midline of the body and 124cm from the heel. It had an abrasion collar, which was located in phero laterally or below and to the side of the injury, on its right side your honor. The trajectory is posteriorly or from the front going towards the back, upwards and to the left. For point of entry number...

Poe: Sir, kung pwede po sa salita na mas maintindihan ng mas marami. You can say the medical term and try to translate as best as you can, so it's easier to understand. For example, you mentioned earlier nothing remarkable, exactly what does that mean? Para maintindihan po.

Lara: Thank you your honor, to continue your honor, for point of entry number 1, I was able to recover a fired bullet at the back of the victim on the left scapula region or in laymans terms the wingbone at the back on the left side and the measurement on the heel was 125 cm your honor.

Poe: Okay sir, for example if you can also include in your narration, your possible deduction on how, what was the position of the victim when he was shot. Was he laying down? And the shooter is at close range? Anything that can add to our analysis of the incident.

Sen. Panfilo Lacson: Siguro yung position ng natamaan in relation to the position of the shooter

Lara: Yes okay, your honor, if I may just state it in general terms, all four points of entry on the front of the victim except for one had an upward trajectory your honor.

Poe: So ang ibig sabihin pag upward, yung biktima nakatayo, naka-upo, papaano?

Lara: In this case your honor, there are two possible positions for the victim and the assailant. One the victim could be in a vertical position, if he was standing and the assailant or the tip of the barrel of the gun was at a point lower than the point of entry of the body of the victim, this would mean that the victim was on an elevated position relative to the assailant. Or it could also be that the assailant was standing and the victim was laying down.

Poe: So both are possible

Lara: Yes your honor.

Poe: So pwedeng nakahiga ang biktima, pwede ring nakatayo doon sa posisyon ng pagpasok ng bala.

Lara: Yes your honor, both are possible po.

Lacson: Ano ang elevation ng floor, doctor, in relation to, halimbawa nasa labas yung assailant, ano ang elevation ng selda, sa loob ng selda? Mas mataas, pantay?

Lara: I'm sorry your honor I was not present during the crime scene processing, I merely conducted the autopsy on the cadaver of the victim. So for gunshot number two this was the only one that did not have slide please. To reiterate for point of entry number one, I was able to recover a fired bullet. For gunshot number two, this was the only one that did not have an upward trajectory. The direction was from the left side going towards the right and I was able to recover a fired bullet embedded in the vertebra of the victim.

Poe: So that was the only bullet recovered in the body?

Lara: I was able to recover three fired bullets out of the four points of entry. Only one exited and I was able to recover all three fired bullets your honor. Poe: And it's also possible that the person was lying down in this particular case.

Lara: Yes your honor.

Poe: Thank you sir.

Lara: This was the bullet I was able to recover in the thoracic vertebra. Next slide please.

Poe: Kapag thoracic...

Lara: The backbone. Pertaining to the part of the chest of the victim.

Poe: Sa chest area.

Lara: For point of entry number three it was in the abdominal region already. The trajectory is going towards the back and upwards. This is the only gunshot that exited the body.

Poe: Dun sa mga bala na nakuha niyo, pare-pareho ba yung bala? Isa lang ba ang bumaril sa tingin ninyo?

Lara: Your honor I would like to defer from answering that question. I am not a ballistician, that is not my expertise.

Poe: I understand. But just by mere sight and we won't hold you accountable to this. Just by the sizes of bullets retrieved from the body, are they all uniform sizes?

Lara: From experience your honor, I would say that all three bullets are all from the same caliber and all are full metal jacket types of bullets, your honor.

Poe: Okay, thank you again.

Lara: Point of entry number three was the only gunshot wound that had an exit wound at the back. Next slide. For gunshot wound number four, this was the umbilical region or on top of the umbilicus. Again, the direction was going towards the back of the body and upwards and I was able to recover the bullet which was embedded in the diaphragm. It was embedded in the diaphragm muscle of the victim. In all, there were four points of entry on the body of the victim. Two on the chest, two on the abdominal region. Three of them had an upward trajectory. All from the front going towards the back. One had an exit wound and I was able to recover all three fired bullets.

Poe: Thank you for your report, sir. So just to summarize what you are saying. Yung biktima pwedeng nakahiga o nakatayo noong siya ay binaril at sinasabi din ninyo na dalawa ang tama nito sa may chest area o sa dibdib at dalawa din sa tiyan. Nais ko ring tanungin sa inyo, para lamang malinawan, sa tingin ba ninyo malapit ang bumaril sa kanya o regular ang distansya sa mga nagkakaroon ng engkwentrong ganito?

Lara: Upon conducting the examination your honor, there were no markings on the victim that may indicate that this was a close range or intermediate range type of gunshot wound. However your honor, I did, because the victim was wearing clothing that the time that he was shot and so what I did was I recovered the upper garment of the victim and I submitted it to our crime laboratory or our office in Ormoc City for examination of gunpowder residue. And based on the results we can deduce whether or not this was a close range or intermediate range type of gunshot wound.

Poe: I would also like to ask, if for example. The gun residue, the nitrate found in the victim, this is something that your laboratory does not test for on the body of the victim.

Lara: The victim was not wearing clothing at that time.

Poe: It was alleged that the victim actually fired a gun and there's a residue on the hand, I would assume. Were you able to determine this?

Lara: I believe our SOCO team was able to do a paraffin examination.

Poe: Did you also discover anything remarkable, for example, bruises other than gunshot wound?

Lara: None your honor otherwise it would have appeared in our examination.

Poe: Kaya ko naman tinatanong kasi sinasabi nila na mayroon daw residue sa kamay. Ang SOCO ba ang nagdedetermine nito? Nasaan po kayo sa report? Yung crime lab, pwede ba kayong mag..yung lahat ng nakita ninyo. Dun ba, pareho yung kay Yap at kay Espinosa?

SOCO: Your Honor, Goodmorning.

Poe: We will just administer an oath. Have you already taken your oath, sir?

PSupt. Jose Melvin Tamaca (Chief, Regional Crime Laboratory): Not yet.

Poe: Ah, okay. What were you saying? You were saying something. You have a presentation.

Tamaca: We also have a presentation.

Poe: Just answer the question briefly, and then we will go to your presentation, if we need additional information.

Tamaca: Yes, Maam.

Poe: But please, stand and we will administer your oath. The PAO lawyers included those that arrive right after the oath administered.

Tamaca: Also, Chief Inspector Lara.

Poe: And this should be effective also for your previous statements...

Poe: Going back to my questions. Sir, sa SOCO pakilinaw po kung ano yung nakita niyong residue sa kamay nung biktima. Dun ba sa parehong biktima o dun lang kay Mayor Espinosa?

Tamaca: Your honor, on both victims po

Poe: On both victims you found gun residue, powder residue. Is it possible, o possible ba na, o nakikita ba ninyo sa imbestigasyon niyo noon, na ang isang bangkay ay kinuha ang mga kamay at pinilit lang na magpaputok ng baril kahit ito'y patay na para lamang magkaroon ng residue, diba napapanuod natin yan minsan sa telebisyon. Possible ba yun?

Tamaca: Your honor, I have no authority about that, pero on my opinion , on my personal experience, it is possible. But, for any other further question we have chemist here, together with us who can provide further details

Poe: So did you examine the fingers also, did you examine the fingers of the victim on what position was it.

Tamaca: Actually your honor, a paraffin cast was taken from both victims.

Poe: Kaya nga, diba minsan pag naninigas na yung kamay ng isang bangkay. At pinilit mong gumawa, hindi ako doktor, pero pinilit mong gumawa ng isang bagay na naninigas na, maaaring may nakikita kang anumalya dito sa kabuoan nito.

Tamaca: Yes, your honor.

Poe: O masyado pang maaga siguro.

Tamaca: Posible po kasing mag-apply po ng paraffin wax para po duon po natin madedetermine kung meron pong gun powder residue.

Poe: O sige, go ahead.

Zubiri: Napa-simple lang po nung tanong ni Sen. Grace Poe. Posible ba na patay na yung taong kunin yung kamay, lagyan ng baril at iputok para magkaroon din ng gun powder residue. Simple question.

Tamaca: Posible po.

Zubiri: that's what we wanted to hear.

Poe: Thank you. Nais ko ring tanungin kasi, duon sa SOCO sabi inyo na, I think merong isang report, yung maagang report na ibinigay. SOCO ba ang nag-refuse na pumirma o ayaw pumirma ng form of orderly search. Meron kanina sa presentation e, yung unang nagpresent. Sino yung unang nagpresent kanina? Kayo yata e, may nagsabi na merong hindi pumirma ng form of orderly search, I think SOCO yun pagkatapos.

Tamaca: Hindi po, sir yung members po ng south provincial jail. Nalaman ko po yun from Chief Insp. Laraga tsaka Superintendet Matira na nung pinapapirma na nila yung members ng sa provincial jail para sa orderly search, indi po sila pumirma. They refuse to sign it, pero nag-sign po duon yung mga barangay chaiman at tsaka po yung media na naka-witness din po.

Poe: Bakit ayaw nila pumirma?

Tamaca: Hindi po alam yun, honor.

Poe: Ngayon, dito ngayon sa SOCO nung pumunta ata yung police commission pagkatapos sinabi nila, wala na yung baril kasi nga ineexamine na yung baril, yung mga iba syempre wala na din dun yung katawan pero pati yung mga markings sa dingding, yung mga tilansik ng dugo wala na rin duon, yaan ba ay standard na kaagad agad ay pinatatanggal ninyo pagkatapos ng imbestigasyon o pinapaiwan ninyo ng mga ilang araw para mabalik-balikan at mabistahan yung nangyarI.

Tamaca: Your Honor, usually po after hour of processing tinu-turnover po namin sa investigation on case.

Poe: Sino ang investigator ng case? Yung mismong investigator po.

Tamaca: PO3 Norman Abillanosa.

Poe: Nandito ba siya?

Tamaca: Nandito po, Maam.


Poe: Sige, pag may karagdagan tayong tanong mamaya, hihingin natin. Gusto ko lang tapusin, Chair, yung ibang tanong tapos kung pwde nating balikan ung iba. For the CCTV, diba sinasabi hindi daw gumagana, under repair nung mga panahon na yun. Gusto ko lang malaman, bakit yung report nakalagay, November 5 yung report na yung CCTV hindi gumagan. Tama ba yung pagkakaintindi ko? November 5 din yung repair, Nov. 5 din nangyari? Ganun ba yung report ninyo, ganun ba yung sinasabi ninyo?

Leyte Provincial Jail Warden Homobono Bardillon: : Goodmorning, your honors. Actually Maam, yung CCTV naming ngayon gumagana na. gumana po yon October 26 tapos October 27 tinurn-over na samin nung nag-gawa. I have evidence that, gumagana talaga yung CCTV namin.

Poe: Yung panahon na yun, yung nangyari yung insidente, meron kayong patunay na ito'y gumagana nuon. Nasaan ngayon yun. Yung mga na-record nun, kasi

Bardillon: Yes your honor.

Poe: Nasaan ngayon yun? Yung mga na-record nun? Alam niyo, meron ding sinabi kasi na nung pumunta na ang CIDG doon, yung pulis na, nung nakita nga na may paparating, ang instinct niya, ang una niyang inisip ay tumakbo para tingnan yung CCTV, kaya tama yung sinabi ninyo, kasi para nga makita yung mga dumarating. Kaya nakakalito na sinasabi na walang CCTV na nag-ooperate noon, sa inyo gumagana nga at meron, nasaan na ngayon ang recording nun?

Bardillon: Yung picture Ma'am?

Poe: Hindi po, yung kuha ng CCTV. May hard drive yun diba?

Bardillon: Yes Ma'am, merong hard drive, pero after ng raid nila, wala na doon. Poe: So may kumuha?

Bardillon: Yes Ma'am

Poe: Ano ang report ng inyong mga kapulisan doon sa jail, sino kumuha? Yung jail guards?

Bardillon: From 3 a.m. until hanggang 11 a.m., yung CIDG po ang may control sa jails namin.

Poe: Okay. CIDG, narinig ninyo yun? Kayo pala ang merong hawak nun. Oo nga naman, pinaharap pa nga ninyo sa dingding yung mga pulis at tinutukan, kayo ba ay nagsisinungaling ngayon? Sinasabi ninyo na walang, hindi ninyo kinuha yun?

CIDG Chief Inspector Leo Laraga: Your honor, totoo po yun na nag face the wall sila pero never po kaming pumunta o kumuha po doon sa sinasabi niya na CCTV recorder. Ni hindi rin po talaga at wala rin pong knowledge talaga kung saan banda po yun. Kasi hindi po yun talaga subject ng search po namin your honor.

Poe: O sige, ganito na lang para lang malinawan dito sa pagdinig na ito. Sinasabi ng jail warden na gumagana ang CCTV, pero sinasabi ninyo na wala kayong kinalaman sa pagkawala nito. So kailangan natin matunton sino may interes para itago yan. So ang mga nangyayari ngayon, siyempre parang, meron tayong mga witnesses na pumunta doon. Yung media witness na kasama yan doon sa batas ng 9165, kung hindi ako nagkakamali, dapat mapatawag rin dito para marinig ang kanyang salaysay dahil kung media siya, maaaring meron din siyang footage, malay ninyo kumuha siya dahil makita nga itong mga nakaplantang ito, kung pagdating ninyo ay nandoon na o na-planta lamang doon. I know that I don't have much time and the others will also have their questions to ask. Mr. Chair, I would just like to make sure that, number 1, I think that the jail inmate Dondon Palermo, he was the one who stated, siya ang nagsabi na narinig niya ang mayor na nagmakaawa o nagsabing wala naman siyang baril o kung anuman yun. Nasaan ngayon, itong si Dondon kasi kailangan protektahan ito sapagkat ito ay isang saksi na maaaring magpatunay kung anuman ang ating iniimbestigahan dito. Nasaan po siya ngayon warden?

Bardillon: Your honor nasa Baybay subjail po.

Poe: Nandoon pa rin?

Bardillon: Yes your honor

Poe: Wala ba tayong pwedeng gawin para yung gma saksi dito sa mga naganap na ito ay maalis doon sa lugar na iyon. Kasi nakita naman natin, pag sa probinsya nangyayari, doon mismo naganap kung ano man ang mga naganap, at doon mo rin itatago o doon mo rin ikukulong ay hindi talaga mapoprotektahan. Dapat sa national custody yan. Sino ba ang nagbibigay ng otoridad na tanggalin doon ang maaaring may mga kinalaman. So judge din?

Bardillon: Judge your honor.

Poe: Sino ang nagaapela para doon? Will the Senate be able to do that on behalf of the witnesses?

Lacson: We have to secure clearance from the court handling the case of whoever inmate we would like to transfer custody.

Poe: Thank you Mr. Chair. In the meantime sir, do you have a functioning CCTV? Were you able to reinstall it or supply a new hard drive?

Bardillon: As of this moment your honor, not yet.

Lacson: Senator Poe meron lang akong interjection, doon sa logbook may nakalagay doon na under repair.

Bardillon: Yes your honor

Lacson: Ano-ano ang masasabi niyo doon? Kasi yun ang tinestify kanina yung prinesent ng PNP CIDG. Meron sa logbook ninyo, this is the logbook of the provincial warden na nakalagay under repair dated November 5, paki-explain niyo lang ho.

Bardillon: Your honor sa gabi po, yung ginagawa ng gwardiya po namin, wala naman po silang ginagawa na masyadong merong mga bisita mga ganun, so in-enter na po nila sa logbook kung ano-ano ang ituturn over pagka-umagahan. So nakalagay na po doon lahat, yung mga CCTV para po pagkadating ng 7a.m. pipirmahan na po nila yung outgoing at saka yung incoming. Ang nangyari po doon, merong naglagay in closed parenthesis na under repair, dalawa po yun. Yung sa hard drive at saka yung isa.

Poe: Para malinawan, hindi kayo ang naglagay ng report na under repair at sinasabi ninyo na mismo kayo ang makakapagsabi na ito ay gumagana nung panahon na yun dapat?

Bardillon: Yes your honor.

Poe: Huling katanungan na lang po, naihayag sa media na mayroong kamag- anak si Mayor Espinosa, mga kamag anak na nanganganib din ang kanilang buhay pero kailangan nilang makakuha ng awtoridad bago sila maprotektahan una. Pangalawa, meron kasing affidavit na nabanggit si Mayor Espinosa bago siya namatay. Itong affidavit na ito ay naglalaman ng iba't ibang salaysay ukol sa kanyang nalalaman. Kung tama ang pagkakarinig ko, sabi nung kamag-anak wala namang affidavit siyang nalalaman pero merong mga nagsasabi, meron at meron pa ngang isang binigay sa akin ng ating chair...May isang nagsasabi nga na doon may ma litrato pa ng mismong affidavit. Meron ba kayong nalalaman na affidavit talaga at nakabanggit dun ng pangalan ng mga indibidwal kasama ang CIDG na may kinalaman sa droga.

Gen. Magalong: No your Honor.

Poe: So walang nakaka-alam kung may affidavit talaga si Mayor Espinosa?

Lacson: Senator Grace, si Chief Inspector Espenido, siya ang Chief of Police ng Albuera, siya yung naghandle kay Mayor Espinosa noong siya'y tinurn over ni Chief PNP. I think we should hear from him but before that I want to acknowledge the presence of the co-chair, the chairman of the justice and human rights commission Senator Gordon. Welcome to the hearing.

Gordon: Thank you Mr. Chair.

Poe: Sir, pakilinaw lang, kasi iyan yung lumulutang na kwento. May affidavit, kaya nga siguro napatay. Gusto ko rin malaman General Magalong, magreretiro na kayo sa December 14. Maraming salamat po sa inyong serbisyo na kailangan naming ng isang katulad ninyo pero kung kayo po'y maretiro, sino papalit at paano na ngayon tulad nitong affidavit na ito? Una muna pakisagot muna kung may affidavit ba?

Gordon: Mr Chair as co-chair I want to manifest, I came in late, I was chairing the blue ribbon committee in the other room so Im done with the (inaudible)

Lacson: Go ahead Chief Inspector Espenido, you make your narration. Based on your personal knowledge or what you know about the whole Espinosa case.

Chief Inspector Jovie Espenido: Good morning your honors, mayroon affidavit si Mayor Espinosa na sinalaysay at saka nilagdaan.

Poe: Mayrooon bang nababanggit na CIDG?

Espenido: As per sa affidavit niya your honor ngayon.

Poe: Huwag mo na banggitin ang pangalan, may mga personalidad din, tama? Na kilala at nandoon.

Espenido: Yes your honor.

Poe: So yun lang maraming salamat Mr. Chair.

SECOND PART OF QUESTIONING Poe: ...For the next hearing, Mr. Chair, we want to invite witnesses from GMA and also Mr. Palermo, the one who witnessed or heard about the shooting.

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