Transcript of Interview with Sen. TG Guingona

Q: Sir, dismayado ba kayo sa mga sagot ni Napoles?

Hindi ako dismayado, in fact we all expected it that she will try the "self incrimination." But what is clear is that she was very evasive and in some point she was lying. There was a stark contrast between what the whistleblowers were saying and what she was saying. You must remember, parati general denial .. "hindi totoo yan, wala ako alam dyan..all general denials vs ..pagtina-tap mga whistleblowers mayroon positive assertions, specifics na sinasabi. For example, sa NGOs, sinabi niya hindi daw totoo 'yon sa tinatayo ng NGOs pero sagot agad mga whistleblowers, "Oh, 'yun NGO nga tinayo natin ang titulo ay nasa pangalan mo." May lot number, my block number so may positive assertions vs general denials. Ganyan parati. At hindi lang isa ang nasabi ng whistleblower. Buti kung si Benhur Luy lang, hindi, may mga iba pa nagsalita, mga detalye pa. So, faced with that, who would you believe?

Q: Sir, sabi n'yo hindi siya nagsasalita. What makes you think that she will talk the next time?

Well, right now we just want to evaluate with certain members what happened, see the transcripts. Will talk to the members of the Committee and ask them what they want to do. Pag-aaralan pa.

Q: Sir, with the number of senators kanina, are you not worried you won't be able to crack her next time?

What is important is the credibility of the truth. The whistleblowers made positive assertions and what is important is that people believe the general denial of Janet Lim Napoles vs the whistleblowers' positive assertions. That is what is important.

This is not the place where we have accountability. You have to go to the Ombudsman. The purpose of this hearing is in aid of legislation. So I do not expect this hearing to have a general sentence as the end result.

The point of this is that we will know, No. 1, ano nangyari. Kung wala mga hearings na ito, malalaman ba ang mga taong bayan kung ano nangyari? Papano nangyari? Sino mananagot? At paano tayo maassure na hindi na mangyayari ulit. Yung ang punto doon.

Q: Hindi ba pwedeng ipatawag na yung ibang mga nabanggit kanina?

Yes, totoo yan. Maraming nagsasabi sa akin na ipatawag natin ito, ipatawag natin ito, ito, so yun nga, sabi ko we will evaluate muna. Pero totoo yun, marami talagang nagsasabi. Yung iba naman, meritorious naman, dapat naman talaga.

Q: So do you intend to call the chief of staff?

We will evaluate. Ayoko mag-decide na mag-isa, remember this is a committee, but most likely. We will look into that.

Q: Ipapatawag ba ninyo ang AMLA?

I have to check about the legality. If memory serves me right, I may be mistaken, ang pwede lang kumuha ng impormasyon sa AMLA, either the courts or the Ombudsman. If that is the law then I would like to honor that.

On Senator Escudero's suggestion to summon the husband of Napoles

Nung sinabi niya, I said so ordered, so that means we will summon her husband. Once he is there in the Senate Blue Ribbon hearing, and he has yet to answer any questions, yes, we can ask him anything. We will invite him first. We will follow the procedure.

On what legislation can be crafted after the investigation

Ang layunin natin, paano nangyari, sino ang may kagagawan, at paano natin maiiwasan na hindi na mauulit, so ang tanong diyan, kung tatanggalin natin ang PDAF, ano ang papalit sa PDAF kung meron mang kailangang kapalit? May mga suggestions, sinabi ko dati yung bottom-up budgeting na kung saan galing sa mga komunidad mismo ang suggestion kung paano magagamit yung pera. After consultations with the basic communities like the barangay, doon lang pupunta yung proyekto sa DBM. That is why it is called bottom-up, it starts with the very basic unit which is the barangay. We are in the process of getting other suggestions.

Dun lang napunta yung mga proyekto sa DBM. That's why it's called bottom-up. It starts with the very basic unit which is the barangay. We're in the process also of getting other suggestions.

On Senator Santiago's statement to make Janet Napoles a state witness

I don't know if she proposed that. What she said is that the court has the right or power to grant state witness after evaluation. That's really up to the courts. Something I don't like to comment on kasi its not within our powers.

Q: Do you still plan to discuss or take up whether to cite her in contempt or not?

Yes that will still be studied.

Q: Bakit sumunod sa inyo si Senadora Miriam sa pagtatanong nung dumating at magkano na ang nagagastos ng Blue Ribbon Committee?

Nakiusap si Senator Miriam sa kanila at pumayag sila. Nagagastos? I don't really know right now and it's not the Senate Blue Ribbon. It's just a regular part. Example, ano nagagastos natin dito. Yung session hall, mga tao. It's an office day naman today so there's no expense.

Q: Sabi niyo kanina i-eevaluate ng committee kung nagsisinungaling si Mrs. Napoles. Kung mapatunayan, kakasuhan niyo po ba ng perjury or kakasuhan niyo agad si Napoles?

Pag-uusapan namin yan. Those are choices that we have to make if we reach that point. Therefore, the decision point is either to cite in contempt or wag na contempt derecho file a case.

Q: Ano ang napala ng Blue Ribbon Committee kanina?

I'm satisfied because there was a star contrast na nakita ng taong bayan. Yung isa general denial lang. 'Hindi ko alam. Wala akong alam.' Versus very positive assertions with details. Like I said kanina, pati yung block number and lot number nasabi nila. Faced with those details, there is so much contrast.

Q: Are we much closer to the truth?

Sen. Guingona: I'd rather let the people answer because they are the ones who can judge. I don't want to judge them but we are just providing them the venue so that they know what is happening.

Q: May clearer picture na ba tayo dun sa sinasabi niyong overall picture?

It's a clear picture. Kung inyong nakita kanina, mayroon akong powerpoint from creation of NGOs to negotiations to payment of kickbacks, liquidation.

Q: Sabi niyo makukumpleto lang 'yung picture kung magsasalita si Napoles. Wala naman siyang sinabi kung hindi "Hindi ko alam".

She doesn't want to answer. She invokes her right, karapatan niya 'yon. But the point is we were able to show a contrast between general denials and very very specific positive assertions by the whistle blowers. So, you don't have to let her talk for the truth to come out because we have other whistleblowers who are so credible.

Q: Sir, ano 'yung description niyo sa demeanor ni Napoles? Hindi ba frustrated 'yung ibang kasamahan niyo dahil evasive at walang remorse na pinakita. Ano 'yung paglalarawan niyo sa demeanor nya and ano 'yung plano niyo sa mga nabanggit na senators na sabi ni Senator Miriam na murderous?

I won't comment on the second one but the demeanor noong una, well, I don't know kasi kanina parang she was withholding emotions but then somebody told me she is diabetic and so if you are diabetic, your moods really change with the amount of sugar that you need in your body. So, I don't really know.

Q: Sir, kailan ang target natin na matapos ito kasi mukhang napaparami ata?

Nanganganak eh. 'Yun ang problema. 'Yung mga sina-suggest na ipatawag, ipatawag naman. So, hindi ko masasagot 'yan.

Q: Sir, paano 'yung ibang hearing like 'yung sex for flight?

Sex for flight is suspended because what happened dito kay Napoles. It was taken over.

Q: Sir, si Senator Santiago described Napoles as not only evasive but distant. How do you, as a chairman, describe her demeanor as far as she is questioned by the senators and is the Senate a little softer?

Hindi naman. I don't think we were soft on her. I think it was just fair. Sinabi ko nga noong tinanong siya in her interview with Mareng Winnie, hindi na raw niya maalala. Pero noong tinanong siya about the coal business in Indonesia, she even mentioned a figure of $10 million. So very selective. Signs of either lying or evading, very evasive.

If Napoles be considered too smart and if it is necessary to call her again in the Senate

Yes, again. Walang nakukuha per se if you just talk to her. But, based again the fact drop of several whistle blowers, with so much detail including bank accounts to show then you paint a picture - a start contrast. I would like to underline the phrase start contrast - black vs. white. It is not just bringing her alone but painting a picture of contrast between her general denials and the specific positive assertions of the whistle blowers. Then, you can see the truth.

In naming the legislators behind release of pork

That was the request of Sec. de Lima. That time hindi pa na file ang kaso, ngayon na file na.

If there is 2nd batch of the hearing

Tulad ng sinabi ko nasa affidavits naman nila. At matagal na sa inyo ang mga affidavits na iyon. These information's is not bombshell new information anymore.

Kung isasailalim sa isang executive session si Napoles

Tinanong nga ni Sen. Bam and Sen. Chiz session. Ano daw ang sasabihin niya. E wala naman pala.

On the perception that the hearing would turn out to be a circus

You'll be the judge. I won't answer that. You be the judge.