TRANSCRIPT OF INTERVIEW
Cayetano files Concurrent Resolution No. 4 abolishing the Pork Barrel and Senate Resolution No. 196 appointing Special Independent Investigator
in the person of Panfilo Lacson

NOTE:

• Please note that there was an oversight on the part of the Office of the Bills and Index. They thought the pork barrel resolution was an ordinary resolution and not a Senate Concurrent Resolution. A Senate Resolution just needs the Senate adoption but a Concurrent Resolution would also need the nod of the House. Hence, the resolution seeking PDAF abolition (initially Reso No. 196) is now Senate Concurrent Resolution 4 while the resolution appointing Special Independent Investigator (initially Reso No. 197) is now Senate Resolution No. 196.

Reporter: Why did you file these resolutions personally?

ASC: I want to take personal responsibility. I want this to be a crusade!

I think the time is now. I think there's a really good chance that we can abolish pork barrel. Tingin ko dapat hindi matigilan ang pressure mula sa publiko.

Despite some clerical errors on its special audit report, COA is doing a great job. Hinihimok ko sila na ituloy nila ang special audit hindi lang ng pork barrel mula 2007 hanggang 2009 kundi pati ang pork barrel mula 2010 hanggang 2013.

Some of my informants claimed that between 2005 and 2009, several members of the Congress were given pork barrel funds, but these were hidden in the lump sum (budgets) of other departments. Pero nakikita naman kung sino ang nag-request at saan ito inilagay.

Ang korupsyon ay maaaring hindi lang doon sa PDAF at hindi lang sa tradisyonal na tinatawag nating 'pork barrel' pero pati dito sa lump sum. Ang isang pinag-aaralan namin sa budget hearing ng COA, kami'y nakikiusap na isama din sa special audit nila mula 2005 hanggang ngayong taon ay ang mga lump sum ng ibang departamento para malaman na yung ibang Kongresista na nagtago ng mga pondo doon.

Importante ito sapagkat ang gumawa nito ay mga nasa departmentong ito pa... Yung mga nakausap ko kailan lang, yung iba pinaalala sa akin na nung araw nung hindi nakikialam ang mga myembro ng Kongreso sa DPWH, lahat ng kalye na gawin ay may drainage. Pero dahil gusto ng mga Kongresista na mas mahabang mga kalye ang gagawin, pinatanggal ang mga drainage na naging sanhi ng baha ngayon dahil pati hindi mga inhinyero ay nakikialam...

So these are the continuing evils of the pork barrel that are currently being revealed. Some people say it's too late (for this drastic reform). I say it's better late than never. I think this is the best chance that we have as a nation to get rid of the pork barrel.

Having said that, I think that it's equally important for the FOI bill to be passed as well. If we abolish pork barrel and push for the FOI bill, we can definitely achieve 'tuwid na daan.'

Reporter: How soon can PDAF be abolished if other senators support your proposal?

ASC: If someone from the House can file a concurrent resolution, then a concurrent resolution has the effect of law. Matatali o mapoposasan na ang mga Kongresista, dito sa pondo ng 2014 ay matatanggal na din ito. The committee on finance chairman also has an important role because if he rejects any lump sum in the 2014 budget, this is also a huge step towards the abolition of the pork barrel.

Tandaan po natin, hindi po natin gusto na itago lang ang pork barrel. Kasi kung tatanggalin mo ang PDAF, pero marami pa ring lump sum o lalaki ang lump sum sa mga departamento, ang nangyari nun ay tinago lang ang pork barrel sa ibang anyo pero andyan pa din.

There are two things that we have to remove: (1) the lump sum funds in the budget and (2) the discretion of the legislators to say what projects or what agencies should get the funds and how such funds will be used.

Reporter: SO by next year, will pork barrel no longer be part of the budget?

ASC: Yes. But we'll know in the next month or so. Ang budget (hearing) mag-uumpisa na sa Senado at nag-umpisa na din ito sa House. Hindi ako naniniwala na yung resolusyon ay ipapasa tapos dadayain yung budget. Samantalang kung hindi magkakaroon ng suporta itong resolusyon na ito, alam na natin na magkakaroon pa din ng pork barrel sa 2014.

It's really a choice that we have to make as a nation. Do we want a pork-free 2014 or a pork-filled 2014?

Reporter: Did pressure from the public cause you to propose abolishing the pork barrel?

ASC: Remember, we are only representatives of the people... Kung malinaw kung ano ang gusto ng tao, kailangan natin sundin ito.

Malinaw din na sinasabi sa mga Kongresista na hindi naman pwedeng mawalan ng proyekto ang kanilang mga lugar lalo kung liblib. Yun po ang sinasabi ko, tanggalin ang pork barrel pero siguraduhin pa din na may proyekto ang bawat lugar. Tatanggalin natin sa kamay ng mga Kongresista ang mga proyekto na ito at ibibigay natin sa mga ahensya...

It can be done if the funds are put in the agencies and standards are put in and if the FOI bill is passed.

To answer your question directly, I think yes, all the senators and congressmen are feeling the people's clamor to abolish pork barrel and what senators and congressmen should do is to pass and protect the entire budget.

Kung merong korupsyon sa 1.5% ng budget sa PDAF, tingin ba natin walang mas malaking korupsyon sa 98.5%? Meron din. Pero paano mo babantayan kung ikaw mismo ay sinasabing nagbabantay-salakay? Ang sinasabi ko, bantayan natin, pero tanggalin natin ang akusasyon na bantay-salakay ang mga Kongresista.

Reporter: Sen. Guingona said there's no need for a special independent investigation. What is your reaction?

ASC: I respect his opinion, I don't know if I heard it right. But the President said that he's considering that position for Sen. Ping. From what I know, the President said that Ping is more than qualified. I don't know exactly how he said it. Ang pagkasabi daw ay pwede talagang pang-imbistega sa pork barrel si Sen. Ping.

Now that's the opinion of the Blue Ribbon committee chairman and it carries weight but that's why I filed this in the Senate, not in the Blue Ribbon committee because it's natural for a chairperson to want to have full control.

What I'm saying is, with all due respect to my colleagues and to the present chairman, it is the first time that Senate will investigate itself. It is the first time that investigating agencies pinpoint senators. Ang lumalabas pa lang sa COA ay mula 2007 hanggang 2009. Paano kapag lumabas ang 2010 hanggang 2013 tapos halos lahat ng senador nabanggit doon... It's better to have an independent investigator.

That's why it's independent; it's not under the chairman or the committee. He takes his power from the Senate, but he's independent to do what is necessary to find out the facts and the truth.

If what Sen. Guingona is saying is that a special investigation would be superfluous, so what? Mas maganda naman sa imbestigasyon dumoble kesa magkulang. Hindi bale nang sobra kesa kulang...

I'm sure si Sen. Ping hindi lang siya magaling magtago, magaling din siyang maghanap. He has already experienced this... I think Sen. Ping has the necessary (skills to do this).