Senate Minority Leader Alan Peter S. Cayetano
October 25, 2011 TRANSCRIPT PART 2
Re: MILF-AFP Clash/ Situation in Mindanao

'Provide Social Justice first in order to deliver All-out justice'

Magandang tanghali po, andito po tayo ngayon sa Integrated Jail ng BJMP sa Taguig at makikita niyo po na ang mga nakakulong dito ay drug-related o dahil sa poverty. Pero binanggit ko nga na yung mga nagnanakaw ng malaki sa ating bansa, kaya naghihirap sa ating bansa, wala dito kung hindi mga nasa subdivision.

So yun po ang sinasabi kong all-out justice. May mga sumasama sa rebelyon dahil naniniwala sa ideology. May sumasama sa rebelyon dahil raket nila yun at kumikita sila. Pero may mga sumsama din sa rebelyon dahil sa lubhang kahirapan. So that's what I'm saying na all-out justice.

Let's provide the social justice, let's provide the projects, the programs, trabaho sa ating mga kababayan kasi ito ang magtatanggal ng mga supporters ng mga rebelyon.

Now doon sa mga leaders na swapang o mainit ang ulo o nag-eexercise ng lawlessness, katulad ito na violation lang ng ceasefire ay magpapatayan na, ang ibig sabihin ng all-out justice ay hulihin and bring them to justice.

Fight the problems of Mindanao: 'Put an end to greed and address the needs'

Let's go to the root cause of all of this. Dalawa yan eh, yung greed at yung need. Maraming sumasama sa mga insurgencies dahil gutom at walang trabaho. So dapat all-out tayo sa anti-poverty.

Doon naman sa greed, maraming ginagamit na raket ang insurgency pero yumayaman. Dapat din doon habulin at dalhin sa hustisiya. What we have to do really is not all-out war and bringing out the guns but rather setting the goals.

The PNP and AFP setting the goals. But for us, to give the AFP and PNP ano ba ang kailangan nila to finally stop all kinds of insurgencies sa ating bansa.

Pero uulitin ko, hindin titigil ang insurgency ngayon habang gutom at kawalan ng trabaho ang nararanasan ng ating kababayan.

On allegedly breaking the Ceasefire Agreement: 'There is never any excuse to kill people'

Regardless of any violation sa kahit anong agreement, there is never any excuse to kill people. All throughout history, pag pumasok na ang pera, pag pumasok na ang power may patayan. But there is never any excuse to kill except for self-defense.

Ang nangyari sa mga sundalo natin, napakasakit dahil they are the ones enforcing the law. The rebels have to know that they are in fact rebels. They are in fact fighting the establishment and the system. So they have to fight it within the bounds of the law din.

So it is enough that the government is willing to sit down with them. Meaning that kahit may armas kayo, sige wag na muna yang armas at makikipag-usap kami. Malaking bagay na to sa gobyerno. Maraming gobyerno around the world, hindi ka uupuan habang may armas ka.

On MILF not facing Justice: 'It's a deal breaker'

But para mag-offensive ka and then wala silang ihaharap sa atin o wala silang ibibigay sa atin na mga responsible para harapin ang hustisiya ay hindi maayos yun. For me, it's a deal breaker.

You only sit down with an insurgency group if they are also sincere in sitting down with you. If not, wala namang choice eh. Whether you call it out war or whatever you call it, you have no choice but to keep peace and order. And anyone who violates that, who forms a group to rebel, has to be stopped.

Reporter: Sa tingin niyo ba sincere ba ang MILF sa peace talks with the government?

Ang problema sa MILF ay yung nangyari sa last few years na sinasabi nila na may mga terrorist groups na hindi attached sa kanila at yung sinasabi nila na may mga lost command sila but they're not helping us na hulihin yung mga elementong iyon.

May usapan ba sila? Or they believe in the same principles but they don't believe in the same means at nagccoveran sila. That doesn't sit well with me. Ibig sabihin kailangan i-define nila kung sino ang nasa group nila . Kung hindi, hindi mo masisi ang AFP na isipin na isang political tactic lang ito.

Reporter: Sabi ng MILF that they will help the government but they will not surrender the lawless elements...

'Hindi pwedeng isang kamay sumasaksak samantalang ang isa ay kumakamay'

Kailangan natin ng gawa hindi salita. Halimbawa ngayon sabihin ko na susuportahan ko ang presidente tapos gumawa ako ng mga galaw to make the government unstable. Tulong ba yon?

I do believe that they are sincere in wanting a better life for the Bangsamoro people, for the Muslim population of our country. Pero tingnan niyo naman dito sa Luzon at Visayas. Bakit naman nag-t-thrive ang negosyanteng Muslim? Bakit ang Islam ay nirerespeto dito? Kasi kung ano ang itapon mo, 'yon din ang babalik sayo.

So kung violent ang itatapon sa atin ng MILF, violent din ang bumabalik sa kanila. Hindi ako naniniwala na sasabihin mong sincere ang isang grupo kung ang kaliwang kamay ay kinakamayan ka at ang kanang kamay ay sinasaksak ka.

So kung sasabihin nila na hindi nila kamay yung kaliwa na sumasaksak, isurrender nila yung kamay na yun sa gobyerno.

Reporter: Wala ba kayong naamoy na kudeta?

I think there's a lot of emotion and of course, there's still a lot of politics. But I think we have a very sober leadership in AFP at naiintindihan nila na maraming hindi sabihin ng diretsuhan ng president sa publiko because it involves operations.

But I am sure that the president will not leave this undone. That is why yung prinopropose na dati pa na yung expansive na national security council at ilang miyembro ng senate, ng house at ng media ay bigyan ng security clearance para naiintindihan kung ano ang nangyayri sa mga sitwasyon na ganyan.

Maaring hindi lang nila pwedeng i-announce kasi maririnig nung MILF kung ano ang balak gawin ng gobyerno. But hindi ako naniniwala na the president will take this sitting down.

Reporter: Do you doubt the sincerity of the MILF considering that nagkaroon ng pagkakamali doon sa agreement?

'Look at the spirit of the agreement, not the simply letters'

For me, actions speak louder than words. Kahit may mali sa agreement, kung ang military ay may pinatay sa kanila samantalang ceasefire... If you look at the spirit of the agreement, you do not look at the letter of the agreement.

Ano ba ang spirit ng agreement? Ang spirit ng agreement ay upo muna tayo, tigil putukan habang naguusap tayo kung magkakasundo tayo. Whether may violation, etc, pwede ka namang magcomplain. May grievance mechanism naman yan.

Pero yung simulan mo na makipagputukan uli, anong sense ng ceasefire kung pumuputok ka? Precisely what ceasefire means, tigil putukan. So once na pumutok ka, hindi mo na nirerespeto ang tigil putukan. Once you fire, that goes against exactly what you are saying when you say ceasefire.

If you have a reason to start firing again, you should send a message first. Eto ang violation niyo, at dahil diyan eto ang kailangan nating gawin.

Isipin niyo sa Spratlys, kung yung mga countries na nagcclaim niyan bigla nalang nagffire rather than resorting to diplomatic process, we will constantly be at war.

So why will we treat the MILF any different? They want to be treated with respect as a non-terrorist group, to be respected as an ideological group fighting for independence yet they're not responsible and they're going to resort to violence, wala tayong choice but to resort to law enforcement.

Reporter: Sa area of temporary stay na nakalagay doon sa ceasefire agreement, lugi ba ang government panel doon?

Mahirap kasing sabihin kung ano ang lugi o hindi sapagkat usually pag ceasefire, both sides give something at yun parati ang sensitive. Masyado bang maliit o malaki ang binigay mo?

Katulad ng nangyayari sa Israel, pag masyadong malaki ang binigay ng Israeli government sarili nilang mamamayan ang galit sa kanilang government. Pag masyadong maliit ang binigay nila, hindi papaya ang Palestino na makipagusap sa kanila.

Yun naman ang kahirapan ng gobyerno, sometimes they have to take an extra step in order to be able to get the rebels sit down with them.

Pero ang foul na foul dito ay nagtatake na nga ng special steps na kailangan andun yung kampo nila, inexpand na nga yung area na walang galawan tapos ang immediate response nila pag tingin nila may violation ay patayan, hindi acceptable yun.

In fact, halimbawa, dinetain man lang nila, o hinuli nila then sinoli and then sinabi na violation ito, baka may punto pa sila.

Simple lang siguro ng rule diyan, ancient rule yun na hindi na kailangan sa batas: "Don't do unto others..." So kung sila ang namatayan at sinabi ng gobyerno na sila ang lumampas sa safe area at sila ang pinatay, ano sa tingin mo ang magiging response nila?

'Buhok lang ng sundalo ang galawin, full force of the LAW ang dapat ibwelta'

I think we should be very categorical pag dating sa ating mga sundalo. Buhok lang ng ating sundalo ang galawin ng rebelde, full force of the law dapat ang ibwelta ng gobyerno sa kanila.

The military is just there waiting for the political leadership. Sinabi ng political leadership, lusob then lulusob ang military. Kapag sinabing tigil muna, ceasefire at maguusap kami, they surrender to civilian authority.

But civilian authority has to be very sensitive that we're talking about the lives of our soldiers. So first and foremost, protect the lives of our soldiers. Never go into a ceasefire kung ang buhay ng mga kawal mo is at stake.

For me, at stake dito yung ceasefire at yung peace talks. Pwede lang kung klaro yun.

'There has to be a clear cut apology from the MILF accompanied by surrendering those responsible for it'

Especially now that they're claiming that it wasn't the policy. Kasi kung sabihin mo na yun yung policy, then an apology kasi hindi naman sila makaksurrender ng tao nila kasi sila sila ang nagsabi noon.

Pero yung sabihin na hindi nila inutos yun, edi i-surrender mo kung sino ang nagutos.

Reporter: Sir, dapat ba reviewhin nila yung provision sa agreement para hindi na ulit mangyari?

I think it's the whole framework. Naguumpisa ka palagi sa usapan sa isang framework. That's why may tinatawag na deal breaker. Maraming negotiations pero uunahin mo doon kung ano sa negotiation ang deal breaker at ano ang hindi.

Kailangan malinaw sa mga rebelde na pagka may violation at ang sagot niyo agad ang putukan, deal breaker yan. Kailangan may grievance mechanism.

Kasi yung actual na nakalagay sa agreement, madaling magsabi na masyadong maluwag o masyadong mahigpit, pero yan kasi ang nature ng mga negotiations. May compromise may give and take.

Cayetano to MILF: 'Help bring in Justice'

Let's not have a vigilante type of justice in our country. Gawing klaro. Kung talagang hindi taga-MILF 'yon, tulungan nila tayo. Hunt them down. Bring them to us. Bring them to the military at litisin natin. Let's bring them to justice.

Pero 'yung sasabihin nila na hindi sila 'yon, tapos sa area nila nangyayari at sasabihin nila na may violation, hindi pwede 'yon.

Hindi pwedeng sabihin ng isang katawan na habang kumakamay 'yung isang kamay, sumasaksak naman 'yung kaliwang kamay. Tapos sasabihin mo hindi mo alam. Hindi. Isang katawan lang 'yon, so let's hold them accountable.

Reporter: May criticisms kay PNoy na Abu Sayyaf ang nilalabanan niya...

It is very clear that the Abu Sayyaf is a terrorist group, while the President recognizes the MILF to have legitimate aspirations of the Bangsamoro people and our Muslim brothers in the South.

I think the President is trying to salvage whatever there is for a ceasefire and for peace talks. Because sa totoo lang, more lives will be lost kapag nag-all-out war. He's trying to separate sino ang terorista, at sino ang genuine freedom fighters.

But as recent history has defined, as long as you bring up arms, you can be treated as a terrorist rather than a freedom fighter. But for example, ang Abu Sayyaf na naniniwala sa kidnapping, na kumikita para diyan, no difference with our negotiations with the left. When are their acts legitimate? Kapag binomba nila o inatake nila ang mga private companies o mga government installations o mga sites? Legitimate or terrorist act?

Reporter: Sa interview namin kay President Erap, sabi niya the US has interest in Mindanao at gusto nilang magtayo ng panibagong base ng US tsaka 'yung oil rich na lugar sa Ligwasan...

Whether it's true or not, we have to assume that our neighbors or the foreign countries have interest in our country. Because all these minerals and oils are becoming more scarce and you cannot continue to grow your economy without it. So they're looking at non-traditional sources or countries na dating hindi oil-producing o hindi pinanggagalingan ng minerals na ito, and it affects their interest.

Magiging napaka-na�ve tayo para sabihin na walang interes ang kahit na sinong bansa, lalo ang malalaking bansa sa atin. Pero magiging masyado tayong overreacting to think that everything is a conspiracy. Kaya ang importante ay ang information gathering capability para malaman natin when a conspiracy is trueand when a conspiracy is a figment of someone's imagination.

Reporter: Ang demoralization daw ng military ay mag-uumpisa ng destabilization plot among the soldiers

There's no doubt that there's still politics, even in the AFP. There's no doubt na mayroong mga grupo na gustong i-destabilize o tanggalin ang Pangulong Aquino, but I believe in the Filipino soldiers. Alam kong maging emotional man, they'll keep their emotions among themselves and they will continue to have faith in the leadership.

Ako'y naniniwala din na ang commanders ng AFP ay may pina-plano na ipakita sa mga sundalo nila that their lives mean everything to the leadership at hindi nila papayagan na maulit ito.

Let's look at it more as a chance for reform rather than a chance for destabilization or other extra-constitutional means of changing the government. Hindi madali na mag-take over ang kahit na sino mang naging president after ng pang-aabuso ng Arroyo government.

Magkakaroon ng sways of emotion. Kaya huwag magpapadala sa emotion ng iba at sana hindi naman magpa-tempt ang mga ibang opisyal na maaaring nilalapitan at ino-oofer-an ng malaking pera para gamitin ang mga emosyonal na sitwasyon for political reasons.

Reporter: na tigilan na daw ang mining operations sa buong bansa dahil 'yon daw ang naging cause ng kamatayan ng Italian priest.

Madaling mag-generalize. Like any other industry, may industriya na per se masama katulad ng prostitution o drugs kaya kailangan itigil. Pero may mga industriya na kailangan ng isang bansa pero may iba na irresponsible. Pagdating sa mining, there are a few in the country that exercise the best practices in mining and who do improve the community.

Pero marami, lalo 'yung small-scale mining, na kung saan hindi lamang nakakasira ng environment ng communities, kung hindi hindi din nagbabayad ng taxes o nagnanakaw sa ating bansa. We should be able to distinguish.

Parang billboards 'yan. Kapag may bagyo sinasabi tanggalin lahat ng billboards. Hindi naman lahat ng billboards may problema. 'Yung regulation at kung saan ilalagay at gaano katibay. Ganoon din sa mining. Mayroong hindi reasonable. Which mining operations in the country are following the standards, are following the best practices, ang dapat suportahan, and which ones are, per se, destructive.

Some will argue that mining, per se, is destructive, but there have been a lot of developments in the industry kung paano mag-minahan. So I think we have to educate ourselves din kung ano ang mga acceptable means of mining at ano ang hindi.