Press Release
December 11, 2009

Transcript of Sen. Miriam Defensor Santiago's interview

I am very concerned at what is happening, particularly at what took place yesterday. The indication of more lawlessness and violence in areas near Maguindanao is part of a script. I have reason to believe that this is not a random development-they're just not happening. One, the timing is very suspicious; and two, there's been no such pattern, one after the other sequences of acts of violence or depravation in the history of this province. We have not seen this kind of a pattern of behavior. It seems very much, even to the general public that someone or some group is trying to create a scenario to support martial law. I think that with the proceedings televised of the joint session, it becomes clear to the public that there is no actual, but there might be, imminent rebellion. And that would probably explain why there is a need to develop these malevolent events.

I am very concerned as a lawyer and as a former judge that these are all orchestrated. In military language, this is just acoustics-you have to create some noise so you could justify whatever you are doing. Plus, if this is a scenario, then there are producers who are spending the money to hire the thugs who are carrying out these acts.

Number two, who are the directors who are orchestrating all the events that have just taken place? I have several possibilities in mind. Number one, it could be the Ampatuan clan-one of the two tribal clans that are warring against each other. For the reason that if they can continue to support the factual basis of rebellion they could benefit because rebellion carries a lighter penalty than murder. And apart from that, rebellion is very hard to prove because you have to prove the ideological state of mind. You have to prove that the person has a system of beliefs that does not allow him to accept the government anymore. For example, if he is a communist, then he would have the ideology to destroy a democracy or a capitalist system. I think, if you consider it overall, it would be easier for the Ampatuans to obtain an acquittal from a rebellion charge than from a murder charge for the reason that rebellion needs proof of an intellectual state of mind. It is very difficult. Plus, naturally, as the public knows already, if they are convicted of rebellion, then they become qualified, since rebellion is a political crime, for a political pardon or amnesty. That is one suspect.

Another suspect could be the CIA. They could be playing pawns in the Mindanao game so that they could actually do what our Philippine law prohibits them from doing, which is to engage in actual engagement of fire with the enemy. That would be the second group.

The third group would be a cabal or a group of criminally minded people who have banded together to create a scenario because it will benefit them. Who will benefit from a state of martial law? First, the Defense secretary; he becomes all powerful. That's Noberto Gonzales. Second, the Department of Interior and Local Government, that's Ronaldo Puno. Then the police will also come into place. They would have far broader powers than they normally would have. So, this group could consist of one, the Ampatuans; number two, the CIA; number three, a cabal probably supported by a certain group of military officials consisting of both the Defense and Interior secretaries; and naturally, we come to the most obvious suspect of all, the military establishment, not necessarily lead by the Defense secretary. Maybe there is a group there of angry young men, or maybe let's call them the new RAM that orchestrates all of these so the military could again be as powerful as they were during the previous martial law. So there are possible scenarios here but all point to the fact that someone or some group is orchestrating all these apparently random events. I just refuse to believe they're random.

On whether or not President Arroyo was behind the declaration of martial law

I don't think it is President Arroyo because she is very busy with her own campaign in Pampanga. Remember that her entire historical legacy will, in effect, revolve around whether she won. If she wins, it will be news. If she loses, it will be international news. So she has to work very very hard for her candidacy. And she knows that it is there is Pampanga, because she is a native candidate, her chances of victory are very very high. She can almost take it for granted. But, it is very iffy for her to try and launch a martial law enterprise like this because there is no guarantee that she will win in the Supreme Court or if the Supreme Court decides in her favor, that the population will support her decision. So I think that it is just too risky, that is why I will rule out President Arroyo.

She would be very lucky if she wins this, let's just say, matter of scenarios, but the thing is that she runs also a very high risk if she does so-if she is behind the martial law scenario-and if nonetheless, we are able to continue our government with a new president, she will certainly be hailed to court. That risk is far too great for any person, particularly for a person like Mrs. Arroyo, who is not a lawyer. That is why I believe she cannot possibly have a hand in this although she might be under pressure from some of these suspects I've already mentioned.

May chance ba na malift ang martial law bago matapos ang joint congressional voting?

Dapat gayun nalang ang gagawin niya. Kasi ganito actually iyon, wala rin siyang pakinabang sa martial law dahil meron na siyang "calling out the armed forces" at mayroon na siyang "state of emergency" na pinapayagan ng ating Saligang Batas. Itong dalawang kapangyarihan niya ay hindi kailangan ng pahintulot ng Kongreso o ng Korte Suprema. Ngayon, itatanong mo, dahil andami daming limitasyaon sa Korte Suprema, ano ang mapapala niya na hahabulin pa niya ang martial law na may limitasyon naman na hindi niya magawa sa "calling out the armed forces to aid the police" or declaring a state of emergency? Halos wala rin siyang pakinabang doon e, kaya bakit pa siya mag-risk na matalo pa siya?

On whether it is futile to continue with the joint congressional session

Oo, buo na nag desisyon, kaya nga ako, ang aking personal opinion na ayon sa ating Saligang Batas, dapat pagnagsubmit ng report an Presidente, kailangan magbigay siya sa amin ng kopya ng kanyang proklamasyon, tapos magsubmit siya ng report niya. Ang ibig sabihin, iyong paliwanag niya kung bakit niya ginawa iyon. Dapat sa base ng dalawang papel na iyon, dapat magbotohan na ang Kongreso. Dapat huwag na kami magdiskusyon pa dahil ang base nito ay kung ano talaga ang nangyayari at iyan ang trabaho ng Korte Suprema dahil nakalagay sa ating Saligang Batas that the Supreme Court should investigate the factual basis or validate the factual basis. Mayroon pa kaming mga hearing sa mga cabinet members, e di, it becomes a matter of fact. Since that is a duty for the Supreme Court to perform, we are in effect, already anticipating what the Supreme Court will do. Of course, we cannot convince each other because we already have announced our preconceived votes before the actual joint session. We are losing too much time.

There is a saying, the presence of an observer changes the actions of the observed. Alam mo yung politiko, mahilig iyan umupo lang at magcellphone. Oras na lalagyan mo ng camera, magiging aktibo yan, magiging hyperactive iyan. So ganyan ang nangyayari. Hindi iyan kailangan e. Kailangan sa mismong oras ngayon, pag oras na natanggap natin ang proklamasyon at ang report nagpapaliwanag, dapat botohan na. Dapat ganoon iyan. Pagkatapos, puntahan sa Korte Suprema. Pero kako nga, dinidistract lang kami; dinadala ang aming paningin dito sa martial law kuno habang sila ang nagdadagdag pa ng ibang mga base para manalo sila sa Korte Suprema at mapatuloy ang martial law, hindi lang sa Maguindanao o sa ARMM. Baka mamaya ay nagmartial law na ng buo dahil andami na pala nangyayari pero ang nakikita mong nagyayari ay solo dun sa Mindanao.

Conspiracy?

That is my allegation. I believe there is a conspiracy to prepare the ground for a bolder martial law, perhaps to cover the entire country. And I want to emphasize, this would not necessarily come for President Arroyo. If you weigh the possible benefits, she tends to lose. So it must be some other group�the Ampatuans, the CIA, the secretaries of Defense or Local Government, or just a cabal or a group within the military establishment.

Wala tayong magagwa dahil naging plano na ito e. Mayroon silang sinusunod na script nila o scenario nila. Maski imbestigahin mo, walang lilitaw diyan sa imbestigasyon. Kung hindi, ay dapat sa mga petisyon doon sa Korte Suprema ay magfile ng allegation in the petitions sabihin mo doon na mukhang ito ay, kung wala pang compliance doon sa dalawang kondisyon, dahil mukhang wala ngang compliance doon sa joint session, dinadagdagan nila para pwersado ang Korte Suprema na maaffirm o maapprove ang martial law, kasi puwede naman sa umpisa ay hindi pa sapat ang mga rason para sa martial law pero habang tumatagal ang panahon, oras na umabot sa Korte Suprema na nadagdagan na itong iba pang mga lawlessness, maaaring sabihin ng Korte Suprema na nung umpisa walang base pero ngayon meron na kaya we are forced to ratify the proclamation.

On the ambush that happened in Agusan

For me, it is no longer a question of conspiracy-it is obvious that there is a conspiracy. There is a meeting of minds among a certain group. The question now is who is orchestrating this, and it will not be difficult to find out as the events unfold because it will be naturally a group that will benefit from martial law, not necessarily President Arroyo. She knows that the public will immediately suspect her, and she is not going to risk her candidacy in Pampanga for a public outrage. It will either be the military establishment or somebody who is very close to the leaders of the military establishment because we cannot think of the military as a monolith, hindi naman sila united e. Kanya-kanya silang power struggle doon. Kaya ang nag-umpisa nito ay isang grupo ng mga sibilyan na malapit sa lider ng isang makapangyarihang lupon doon sa loob ng militar.

Is this a sign of weak leadership from PGMA?

Susubukan nila dahil alam nila na lahat tayo, kami halimbawa sa Senado at sa House, we are already consumed by the campaign, so this is the best time for them to strike. This does not necessarily mean she has lost control, kung hindi they just think that this is the best time to spring a surprise on anybody including the president herself. There is nothing that would prevent it from reaching a decision even before the joint sessions. There is no provision or even an implication in the martial law provision that these things should be sequenced in a certain order. They can all take place at the same time.

Kung ako lang ang masusunod, dapat noong unang araw pa lang ng joint sessions ay nagbotohan na kami, pero ang takda ngayon ay Lunes pa magbobotohan.

Objective of the grand scheme

To seize power and to preempt the national elections. Remember, lumitaw na toothpaste sa kanyang tube�hindi mo na maibabalik iyon. In other words, the military has already tasted power when they were the superiors of the civilian authorities, so they can no long acclimatize themselves from the culture of the Constitution which is civilian supremacy.

So this is a dangerous situation?

Absolutely, unless the people are properly educated and warned. That might very suddenly.

How can we preempt this?

There really is now way you can prevent them because you have to have highly excellent intelligence work beforehand, and we don't have that level of capability in intelligence work. We don't even have the technological weapons that could make it possible.

Would the Supreme Court's speedy resolution of the martial law issue preempt the conspirators?

Yes, that would dampen their spirits and would make them think twice because they know that the Supreme Court can influence public opinion. Any kind of government, whether it is civilian or military, has to be validated with public opinion. Kaya matatakot sila kung makikita nila na masyado nang skeptical ang publiko. Kung alam nila na the public cannot make up its mind, isisige nila iyon.

On the unexplained wealth of the Ampatuans

They are really living like royalty, they are living the lifestyles of the rich and famous, so it was very obvious from the very beginning that they were diverting public funds. Ang budget na binibigay namin every end of the year ginagastos nila na parang sarili nilang pera, at kitang-kita naman nila iyan. Ngayon ang tanong natin diyan ay bakit hindi sila dinisiplina ng secretary of interior and local government sa pamamagitan ng Philippine National Police. Kaya humantong iyan sa ganito dahil pinababayaan sila, at takot din ang pulis. Dapat unang katungkulan iyan ng pulis. Hangga't sa maaari hindi tayo dapat tumawag sa militar maliban lang kung nasa digmaan tayo. Magiging exception lang kung hindi na kaya ng pulis. Bakit umabot sa ganyan na hindi na kaya ng pulis? Dapat noon pa, at nawarningan man sila. Hindi na dapat umabot iyon sa ganyan, kasi tanggap na ng mga taga-roon na wala na silang magagawa.

Naiintindihan ko ang mga taga-Mindanao. Ang iba sa kanila ang gusto nila ang martial law dahil tahimik. Pero ang problema diyan ay magiging huwaran iyan para sa kinabukasan. Ngayon, duda tayo kung talagang may basehan; mamaya magkaroon tayo ng presidente na kahit walang basehan isisige niya because of what we might possibly do during our time.

Pangalawa, mahirap mag-uphold ng martial law dahil we will be rewarding criminals by choosing what kind of complaint we shall file. That's the thing, since, as I've said in my speech yesterday, the penalty for rebellion is lower than that of murder. I was quoting from a decision of the Supreme Court. Mamili ka kung anong crime ang na-commit nila: multiple murder, terrorism, o rebellion. Ang pinakamahinang parusa ay sa rebellion, kaya kung gusto mong tulungan ang gumawa ng karahasan doon, i-charge mo sila ng rebellion. Sec. Devanadera filed two separate cases, one for multiple murder and the other for rebellion. Sigurado iyan, as sure as the sun rises from the east, the accused will file a motion, and elevate it to the Supreme Court if necessary, to consolidate the two cases.

The president is not a lawyer, so she could not possibly be expected to go into the niceties or the technical specifics of the law. What I am saying is that her advisers are so wrong. And what I am very concerned about is that some of these advisers might have an agenda hidden from the president. There is an invisible hand coordinating all of these recent incidents that were reported yesterday.

Kung meron nanamang ganyang mga insidente, pwede kaming mag-convene again in joint session at magpalit ng boto because that is a continuing factual scenario. The issue is factual. Kung palitan mo ang scenario, you have to hold a hearing to gather evidence whether the circumstances have changed for the better or for the worst.

What do you want to say to the president?

Lift martial law now and kick out your advisers.

On the new ARMM leadership

Maliwanag naman sa Local Government Code, na kapag wala na ang gobernador, papalit ang bise-gobernador, nakalista lahat iyon. Bakit matagal bago sila nabigyan ng kapalit? Because of the mental set that they (the Ampatuans) will never be replaced, or that they will name their own replacement. It has already become a fascistic society.

Will the government sequester Ampatuan properties?

They are under martial law, so the government can do that.

Who should do it?

The martial law administrator. So my friends, we are in danger.

Dapat ba tayong matakot?

Hindi! Sila ang dapat matakot sa atin. If we have low IQ, we have many things to fear. But apparently we have been educated already. Ang taong nag-iisip mahirap lokohin. Sa mga sunod-sunod na pangyayari, meron bang naniniwala sa mga barberya, sa mga kanto, o sa mga beer garden na hindi ito pinaplano? Sa tingin ko wala.

Do you think the elections will continue given the scenario?

Yes, at least in my case I am resolved that it would continue and I will try my best. I think that as is the attitude of all other senators, we will all try our best to defeat this conspiracy.

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